[Kate Parker Adams]

I do listen to Radio Pacifica's "Free Speech Radio", but with a grain of
salt.  I find the title of the program to be rather ironic all the same,
given the kind of union-busting lock-out their high commander pulled a
couple years ago.  It's a sorry shame that the "ultra left" has such strong
fascist tendencies and the same sort of "that's okay because WE are the
TRUTH" justifications for it that ultra-neo-conservatives do.  I have seen
far too many groups disintegrate entirely, or their membership winnowed to
"loyal" automatons because of this sort of thing.  It is why I will NEVER
work for one of the PIRGs.  The ends never justify the means.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: powderworks-bounces at cs-lists.cs.colorado.edu
[mailto:powderworks-bounces at cs-lists.cs.colorado.edu]On Behalf Of Julian
Shaw
  Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:38 PM
  To: powderworks at cs-lists.cs.colorado.edu
  Subject: Re: [Powderworks] NMOC: Funeral of fair Australia


  I have to say that I find these Independent Media web sites that have
sprung up around the world as anything other than "Independent" in their
views. They are almost entirely dominated by the ultra-left wing. While I
understand a lot of the frustrations they have they basically seem to be
against anything official, and I mean anything! The question is where does
it all fit together? How can you have a society when you are against
everything? It's just developing a culture where people think it's cool to
criticise the government but never come up with any useful policy ideas.

  For example http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/ is my local
Indy media web page. It's full of stuff which is all true but very one
sided. Trust me - this is not what it's like in Sheffield! Sheffield people
have a lot of other more local concerns that they have to deal with - crime,
poverty, bad housing, ethnic tensions, poor public transport, dog crap
everywhere, etc. But if it's not trendy or doesn't have a certain amount of
directed anger attached to it then it doesn't make the news.

  Sadly Jeff you might be right that it's best to have someone with
experience in power (despite their unfortunate policies) rather than have
people on board who are just going to come out with useless dogma and
nothing constructive. However some would argue that's what the conservatives
do anyway. It's such a shame there isn't an organised, constructive left,
rather than the shambles we have at the moment - then the conservatives
really wouldn't be able to get away with what they get away with now!

  Dave - bit of a silly comment. Who wouldn't prefer Howard or Bush to
Hussein? At least people can vote them out if they have enough sense to.

  Here's a question - if PG were labor leader would he push the party
further to the left? Or to guarantee success must Labor always remain
towards the centre - like the UKs "New Labour"? I can't believe in his heart
that PG has really gone soft on the issues he used to believe in. But to
make it in the party he has to either toe the line or get a significant
number of party members to start thinking like him. It will be interesting
to see if there becomes a "Garrett-ite" group within the party.

  Julian

  ----- Original Message -----
    From: David Schultz
    To: powderworks at cs-lists.cs.colorado.edu
    Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 6:51 PM
    Subject: RE: [Powderworks] NMOC: Funeral of fair Australia


    Gotta say, I read Jeff's comments and thought "Yes!"

    Anyone who who would rather still have Hussein as a world leader instead
of Howard (or Bush) is an idiot.
    As is anyone who puts their website in umpteen languages because they're
more interested in currying favour with that oh-so-cultured European elite,
than of making a rational argument to their fellow countrymen.

    back to lurking,
    Dave

    Jeff and Jane Scott <jscott at iinet.net.au> wrote:
      > From: Felipe Castillo
      >
      > About the victory of the conservatives...
      >
      > http://www.indymedia.org/es/2004/10/112114.shtml
      >


      How about actually accepting the result that people voted for, instead
      of whinging about it?

      One thing's for sure, I'd rather have John Howard running the country
      than the sort of people who write these websites.


      jeff...

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    -----
    David Schultz
    Sainte-Julie né Ottawa

    "Action may not always bring happiness, but there is no happiness
without action."
    -Benjamin Disraeli
    -----


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